一些新教徒（如 Gavin Ortlund）认为早期基督徒如奥利振否认向圣徒求代祷。但深入研究后发现，事实并非如此。

Chapters
0:00 - Intro
0:08 - Recap
4:40 - Gavin’s argument
4:56 - my preface
7:36 - Gavin on Origen
9:07 - my response & hermeneutics
10:32 - Gavin on Origen prt2
14:15 - prayer and its species
19:01 - Origen’s Trinitarian Theology
21:55 - A helpful chart
23:14 - Gavin on Origen prt3
23:27 - Origen’s On Prayer
32:35 - Prayer in The Body of Christ
35:07 - Gavin’s response to me
36:38 - Gavin and Estrangement
39:00 - Placation
49:41 - Pagan Origins
57:52 - Gavin’s Arguments from Silence
1:00:59 - Parables
1:07:00 - Straw men?
1:14:00 - Patristic argument
1:15:39 - literally no evidence
1:6:50 - where we agree

Gavin 视频与文字稿：
https://youtu.be/7TxB6_IPmYE?si=S4qTUDsI1ianeUTA

购买我的新书
https://www.amazon.com/Eucharist-Really-Christs-Everything-Believe/dp/1683573072/